It looks like a mix between a Joseph Prince cover and an American chat show you see advertised over there. (theres a wee shadow on it there too…..I joke!)
Joel Osteen is a profound and gifted communicator and I’m sure this book will be another one that will impact me as deeply as his others. He is a modern day Jonathan Edwards, and preaches with the fire of Charles Spurgeon. People don’t like him because they think he’s too similar to the old puritan writers, but you can’t disagree with a man who has the biggest church in America. Its just the jealousy of people that belong to ‘small’ churches really. What a guy!
Anyone who preaches any sort of prosperity gospel needs to be listened to very carefully in case they tell us any of the truth in amongst the “name it and claim it” nonsense.
We only have the right to ask God for everything we need, and no more – including holidays, recreation and the ability to put money aside for a rainy day, allowing that the rainy day might be someone else’s rainy day instead of our own. If God makes a Christian rich, it is only so that they can bless others and glorify God’s name with the money, not so that they can be rich.
I’ll write something long about money soon on my own blog.
(clarification: I believe in holidays as the chance to relax and recover to serve God better, because burnt out and overworked Christians are only fit to take forced breaks!)
Keith – that’s the million dollar question. Is God demonstrating his blessing and approval of Osteen by giving him a massive church? Or perhaps false teaching is popular?
None of us can really judge which of the two above options are correct. In other words: Having a big church doesn’t really prove anything either way!
From what I’ve heard of Osteen, I think he’s a really really really nice guy but doesn’t preach with nearly as much depth as someone like Spurgeon. He’s actually trained in the media – he was on his way to becoming a TV presenter but when his father (who everyone remembers as an outstanding man of God) passed away, Joel took over the church and his career changed.
I’ve been quick to condemn Joel at times, but I don’t think I should because I’ve never actually read any of his books cover to cover.
For now, I think we can all agree him and his wife are living representations of Action Man and Barbie.
Just as a wee clarification for anyone who didn’t get it – I was only joking. I thought the Edwards, Spurgeon and puritans references were a dead give away (maybe not!).
I’m waiting for Osteen’s new book ’7 Reasons why I have to use 7 in my book subtitles’.
* Size of following is no indicator of success (John 6:60-71)
* Financial (or material) prosperity is not a good indicator of God’s approval (Luke 18:22-29; Matthew 6:19-24)
* We should be content with what we have (Proverbs 30:7-9; Luke 3:14; Philippians 4:11; 1 Timothy 6:6-8; Hebrews 13:5). I doubt these passages will be preached in Joel’s church (or churches like his).
If we look at Jesus’ life, he was a homeless Gallilean peasant who needed to go looking for a coin in the mouth of a fish to pay his taxes. I know in the west, we don’t really understand true poverty, but I think it’s fair to say that when you have to go looking in a fish’s mouth for money, the sound of the bottom of the barrel should be a familiar sound!
Plus, Osteen is American! we know that culturally they love to hear a feel-good story…they elected Obama on the back of his feel-good “change is coming to America” soundbyte!
Supersimbo, I promise to comment on your next blog about Jesus!
Boyso! Osteen is the man! If any of you guys stopped being so self righteous and believing that you are the be all and end all of theology you would realise that Joel has a lot of good to say. An no he does not believe in name it and claim it…. How rude.
Why do people here believe in a poverty mindset? (even when they are mega rich… Ironic??) Wasent Jesus poor so we could become rich? Just like Jesus died… So we would not have to died! And wasent poverty a curse in the bible? Hmm yess. Now am not talking about buying private jets or a car every week rich but have enough to help your neighbour. Money is powerful in the hands of the righteous man!
In this book all Joel is saying, is that we should live our life happy, as in that Friday feeling . And why shouldn’t we. Christ is on the throne and not the calvinists! Can I get a good amen!
Why do you guys spend more time kicking each other rather than living out what you believe? Your cynicism and negativity are hallmarks of a church that offers nothing to the rest of us. There is a real search for meaning, truth and purpose in life, and whilst most of us look at Osteen, and are able to objectively contextualise his expression of faith in 21st century American consumerism, he doesnt seem to harbour the deep-seated spitefulness that is often spouted on these sort of blogs. Maybe that is why his church is so big, and most other churches are small and declining. Just a thought chaps….and please don’t quote chunks of the good book back at me. This blog is one of the more thoughtful from a conservative perspective, but the comments on this thread show a different character.
“…..the deep-seated spitefulness that is often spouted on these sort of blogs.”
*skulks off into a corner*
“This blog is one of the more thoughtful from a conservative perspective, but the comments on this thread show a different character.”
*comes back confused about what you are saying*
Honestly though? Comments like that {Iago} serve as a good reminder and keep me in check re: what I say/how I say it……..There is an element of tongue-in-cheek about my post {initially} but sometimes thats not clever………if I am dead honest, I see Osteen as a joke figure……and can’t help but see the irony in the irony across the comments……….but then I enabled/encouraged it by posting the image. My fault!
David R….. the thing about Joel, nice and all he may be is that never once have I heard him declare the Whole counsel of God. He may take one verse and bring out of it what suits his 20 minute mesage with introductory joke. Or alternatuvely he may begin his expostion on favour and then throw a wee verse in somewhere in the middle. His preaching is always anecdotal and not Biblically sound. I have never once heard him mention the Cross of Christ, suffering, hell, sin, justification etc……. this is no egocentric rant about how more superior I may be in my theology but rather to point out that easy religion is easy on the ears of the 20,000+ that attend his church.
1a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : kidding (can’t take a joke) c : practical joke d : laughingstock
2: something not to be taken seriously : a trifling matter (consider his skiing a joke — Harold Callender) —often used in negative constructions (it is no joke to be lost in the desert)
As I bow out of this interesting and thought provoking conversation, I must say that it is always ironic that people who write about others, as not being biblically sound, usually think they are biblically sound.
I think we should be more consumed with our mission on the streets here, than what goes on over the water, because at the end of the day…. He will be accountable for his sphere and we will be accountable for ours.
This is my Bible. I am what it says I am, I have what it says I have, I can do what it says I can do. Today I’ll be taught the Word of God. I boldly confess my mind is alert, my heart is receptive, I’ll never be the same, in Jesus name.
Maybe we are consumed with our mission here David…….maybe we are well aware that we will be accountable for our own sphere…………..and still feel compelled to watch what our young men and women read and consume…………the end point of these discussions usually end with someone declaring that we should be focussed on other things………..
Hi supersimbo, apologies if my comment wasn’t as clear as if it should have been. I meant that your OPs are often thoughtful, however some of the comments can err into stereotypical religious arrogance, some of the comments on this thread I felt were worth calling out. Sorry if I also didn’t see the humour in your post.
A pedantic note on being “Biblically Sound”… (way O/T, I realise.) I believe David R is correct in a sense. For me, it’s up there with ‘This Church Preaches The Bible’, and ‘we need to get back to an Acts 2 church’.
I hear ya Pete but do you not think that we have gone to the extreme with this sometimes?
I wonder if sometimes its more about being politically correct and not offending anyone……that can often be a thinly disguised blend of postmodernism and lack of Biblical conviction/understanding………to which we say “ah you think you know more than me” or “ah you are a fundamentalist”
Agreed! I believe, just like everything else, a good long deep breath before opening one’s jaws solves a lot of problems. I may also have been sidling down a sidetrack for a bit of fire-stoking…
There is, of course, a lot to be said for a teacher attempting to teach what is in the Bible. However, those are very easy words to say – look at Mr Osteen, a gent who seems completely genuine about his convictions – convictions which a large part of the Christian family hold in utter, horrified contempt. I have no doubt if you ask Joel if he teaches sound Biblical principles, he would say yes.
However, that does not prevent me commenting that he’s dangerously, horrendously misguided – and worse still, is sharing this false gospel with a huge audience, and is far from alone in doing so. I would argue it’s anything but Biblical. Who has more of a right to say so – me or him? I certainly have a significantly smaller congregation of devotees. (Though my toilet roll holder remains a faithful disciple, I think. Certainly, it never fails to dispense tender kindness when called upon.)
We are called to be Politically Incorrect. We are called to Offend. However, we are not called to present ourselves as Authorities. And where I lose patience is when any teacher speaks with that certain tone that not just speaks of their conviction, but of near-infallibility. Therefore, we are constantly called to also admit our shortcomings. Something Mr Osteen and many others could, I believe, be in sore need of a reminder.
I would pick a personal hole in your ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ between postmodernism and a lack of conviction, but lunch calls.
stating that something can be ‘a thinly disguised blend of postmodernism and lack of Biblical conviction/understanding’ is not a ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’. If Ally had said that the rise of postmodernism had caused a lack of biblical conviction/understanding then you’d have your logical fallacy. Methinks you assume too much from his statement.
On rereading, methinks you’re right there Keith, and my apologies!
I do believe that it is an assumption often made, and so was quick to react. I wonder if the rush to make it sometimes dismisses a more important conversation – to be had somewhere else, preferably in another timezone from us to save on headaches…
Sad jealousy, that is all this is and all it ever will be. You know zero about his heart for God or his heart for the poor.Love for you to come to btr to see how pastor joel has helped us help so many people for the cause of Christ , but i know you dont want to hear that or see it. Always going to be the haters .
It looks like a mix between a Joseph Prince cover and an American chat show you see advertised over there. (theres a wee shadow on it there too…..I joke!)
there is a white glow behind him………burning sulphur id say!
Tell me though….what is your problem with him?!
I have a problem with everything this guy stands for you only have to read the title of his book to see what kind of eejit he is.
deborah – prosperity gospel…….that disgusts me…….other than that i am sure he is a hoot!
Thought it was something to do with that! He looks like a bit of s root to be honest..
“I love the no tie thing, that should have been us with the no tie thing”
I’d love to put John Piper and Joel Osteen in a cage and have a celebrity preacher deathmatch….
Jonny I had a crazy thought that John Piper had died recently…! Then I remembered that it was David Wilkerson!
Joel Osteen is a profound and gifted communicator and I’m sure this book will be another one that will impact me as deeply as his others. He is a modern day Jonathan Edwards, and preaches with the fire of Charles Spurgeon. People don’t like him because they think he’s too similar to the old puritan writers, but you can’t disagree with a man who has the biggest church in America. Its just the jealousy of people that belong to ‘small’ churches really. What a guy!
In the words of Cleo McDowell “im only gonna tell you this once…………son, stay off the drugs”
Anyone who preaches any sort of prosperity gospel needs to be listened to very carefully in case they tell us any of the truth in amongst the “name it and claim it” nonsense.
We only have the right to ask God for everything we need, and no more – including holidays, recreation and the ability to put money aside for a rainy day, allowing that the rainy day might be someone else’s rainy day instead of our own. If God makes a Christian rich, it is only so that they can bless others and glorify God’s name with the money, not so that they can be rich.
I’ll write something long about money soon on my own blog.
(clarification: I believe in holidays as the chance to relax and recover to serve God better, because burnt out and overworked Christians are only fit to take forced breaks!)
Keith – that’s the million dollar question. Is God demonstrating his blessing and approval of Osteen by giving him a massive church? Or perhaps false teaching is popular?
None of us can really judge which of the two above options are correct. In other words: Having a big church doesn’t really prove anything either way!
From what I’ve heard of Osteen, I think he’s a really really really nice guy but doesn’t preach with nearly as much depth as someone like Spurgeon. He’s actually trained in the media – he was on his way to becoming a TV presenter but when his father (who everyone remembers as an outstanding man of God) passed away, Joel took over the church and his career changed.
I’ve been quick to condemn Joel at times, but I don’t think I should because I’ve never actually read any of his books cover to cover.
For now, I think we can all agree him and his wife are living representations of Action Man and Barbie.
Anyone know any bible passages that could help with this?
Or is it all just personal opinions?
Just wondering……
1 Tim 6v10 ‘the love of money is the root of all evil’. It’s obvious but that’s what I thought of first!
Just as a wee clarification for anyone who didn’t get it – I was only joking. I thought the Edwards, Spurgeon and puritans references were a dead give away (maybe not!).
I’m waiting for Osteen’s new book ’7 Reasons why I have to use 7 in my book subtitles’.
Oh, with regard to Bible passages –
* Size of following is no indicator of success (John 6:60-71)
* Financial (or material) prosperity is not a good indicator of God’s approval (Luke 18:22-29; Matthew 6:19-24)
* We should be content with what we have (Proverbs 30:7-9; Luke 3:14; Philippians 4:11; 1 Timothy 6:6-8; Hebrews 13:5). I doubt these passages will be preached in Joel’s church (or churches like his).
Thought I’d weigh in with one thought…
If we look at Jesus’ life, he was a homeless Gallilean peasant who needed to go looking for a coin in the mouth of a fish to pay his taxes. I know in the west, we don’t really understand true poverty, but I think it’s fair to say that when you have to go looking in a fish’s mouth for money, the sound of the bottom of the barrel should be a familiar sound!
Plus, Osteen is American! we know that culturally they love to hear a feel-good story…they elected Obama on the back of his feel-good “change is coming to America” soundbyte!
Supersimbo, I promise to comment on your next blog about Jesus!
Boyso! Osteen is the man! If any of you guys stopped being so self righteous and believing that you are the be all and end all of theology you would realise that Joel has a lot of good to say. An no he does not believe in name it and claim it…. How rude.
Why do people here believe in a poverty mindset? (even when they are mega rich… Ironic??) Wasent Jesus poor so we could become rich? Just like Jesus died… So we would not have to died! And wasent poverty a curse in the bible? Hmm yess. Now am not talking about buying private jets or a car every week rich but have enough to help your neighbour. Money is powerful in the hands of the righteous man!
In this book all Joel is saying, is that we should live our life happy, as in that Friday feeling
. And why shouldn’t we. Christ is on the throne and not the calvinists! Can I get a good amen!
Ps his wife is better at preaching!
Ps. If you want to hear a real prosperity message Joel is not the one to listen too!
Why do you guys spend more time kicking each other rather than living out what you believe? Your cynicism and negativity are hallmarks of a church that offers nothing to the rest of us. There is a real search for meaning, truth and purpose in life, and whilst most of us look at Osteen, and are able to objectively contextualise his expression of faith in 21st century American consumerism, he doesnt seem to harbour the deep-seated spitefulness that is often spouted on these sort of blogs. Maybe that is why his church is so big, and most other churches are small and declining. Just a thought chaps….and please don’t quote chunks of the good book back at me. This blog is one of the more thoughtful from a conservative perspective, but the comments on this thread show a different character.
“…..the deep-seated spitefulness that is often spouted on these sort of blogs.”
*skulks off into a corner*
“This blog is one of the more thoughtful from a conservative perspective, but the comments on this thread show a different character.”
*comes back confused about what you are saying*
Honestly though? Comments like that {Iago} serve as a good reminder and keep me in check re: what I say/how I say it……..There is an element of tongue-in-cheek about my post {initially} but sometimes thats not clever………if I am dead honest, I see Osteen as a joke figure……and can’t help but see the irony in the irony across the comments……….but then I enabled/encouraged it by posting the image. My fault!
David R….. the thing about Joel, nice and all he may be is that never once have I heard him declare the Whole counsel of God. He may take one verse and bring out of it what suits his 20 minute mesage with introductory joke. Or alternatuvely he may begin his expostion on favour and then throw a wee verse in somewhere in the middle. His preaching is always anecdotal and not Biblically sound. I have never once heard him mention the Cross of Christ, suffering, hell, sin, justification etc……. this is no egocentric rant about how more superior I may be in my theology but rather to point out that easy religion is easy on the ears of the 20,000+ that attend his church.
In light of my latest post, perhaps I need to repent of starting this ‘conversation’
JOKE =
1a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : kidding (can’t take a joke) c : practical joke d : laughingstock
2: something not to be taken seriously : a trifling matter (consider his skiing a joke — Harold Callender) —often used in negative constructions (it is no joke to be lost in the desert)
2: ………..:)
As I bow out of this interesting and thought provoking conversation, I must say that it is always ironic that people who write about others, as not being biblically sound, usually think they are biblically sound.
I think we should be more consumed with our mission on the streets here, than what goes on over the water, because at the end of the day…. He will be accountable for his sphere and we will be accountable for ours.
This is my Bible. I am what it says I am, I have what it says I have, I can do what it says I can do. Today I’ll be taught the Word of God. I boldly confess my mind is alert, my heart is receptive, I’ll never be the same, in Jesus name.
Maybe we are consumed with our mission here David…….maybe we are well aware that we will be accountable for our own sphere…………..and still feel compelled to watch what our young men and women read and consume…………the end point of these discussions usually end with someone declaring that we should be focussed on other things………..
perhaps we should
Hi supersimbo, apologies if my comment wasn’t as clear as if it should have been. I meant that your OPs are often thoughtful, however some of the comments can err into stereotypical religious arrogance, some of the comments on this thread I felt were worth calling out. Sorry if I also didn’t see the humour in your post.
no apology needed – thanks for commenting…………..:)
A pedantic note on being “Biblically Sound”… (way O/T, I realise.) I believe David R is correct in a sense. For me, it’s up there with ‘This Church Preaches The Bible’, and ‘we need to get back to an Acts 2 church’.
Back on-topic, I’ve always found this particular 3 minute clip from Mssr. Piper (on a good day) extremely emotive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s
I hear ya Pete but do you not think that we have gone to the extreme with this sometimes?
I wonder if sometimes its more about being politically correct and not offending anyone……that can often be a thinly disguised blend of postmodernism and lack of Biblical conviction/understanding………to which we say “ah you think you know more than me” or “ah you are a fundamentalist”
I guess a balanced view of these things is good
Agreed! I believe, just like everything else, a good long deep breath before opening one’s jaws solves a lot of problems. I may also have been sidling down a sidetrack for a bit of fire-stoking…
There is, of course, a lot to be said for a teacher attempting to teach what is in the Bible. However, those are very easy words to say – look at Mr Osteen, a gent who seems completely genuine about his convictions – convictions which a large part of the Christian family hold in utter, horrified contempt. I have no doubt if you ask Joel if he teaches sound Biblical principles, he would say yes.
However, that does not prevent me commenting that he’s dangerously, horrendously misguided – and worse still, is sharing this false gospel with a huge audience, and is far from alone in doing so. I would argue it’s anything but Biblical. Who has more of a right to say so – me or him? I certainly have a significantly smaller congregation of devotees. (Though my toilet roll holder remains a faithful disciple, I think. Certainly, it never fails to dispense tender kindness when called upon.)
We are called to be Politically Incorrect. We are called to Offend. However, we are not called to present ourselves as Authorities. And where I lose patience is when any teacher speaks with that certain tone that not just speaks of their conviction, but of near-infallibility. Therefore, we are constantly called to also admit our shortcomings. Something Mr Osteen and many others could, I believe, be in sore need of a reminder.
I would pick a personal hole in your ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ between postmodernism and a lack of conviction, but lunch calls.
Pete,
stating that something can be ‘a thinly disguised blend of postmodernism and lack of Biblical conviction/understanding’ is not a ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’. If Ally had said that the rise of postmodernism had caused a lack of biblical conviction/understanding then you’d have your logical fallacy. Methinks you assume too much from his statement.
On rereading, methinks you’re right there Keith, and my apologies!
I do believe that it is an assumption often made, and so was quick to react. I wonder if the rush to make it sometimes dismisses a more important conversation – to be had somewhere else, preferably in another timezone from us to save on headaches…
Sad jealousy, that is all this is and all it ever will be. You know zero about his heart for God or his heart for the poor.Love for you to come to btr to see how pastor joel has helped us help so many people for the cause of Christ , but i know you dont want to hear that or see it. Always going to be the haters .
Dino – this is not jealousy and is not ‘hating’ – I am sorry you think that it is………………but it is not!
All I know about his heart is that it is shaping what he says…………